OOC Comments, Questions, Etc.

[Lammomedes]

This thread is for OOC comments, questions, problems, etc. that you might have about anything going on in the game.

[Gaffer]

I've added the following to Dodgson's character sheet:

compass, pocketknife, match case; riding whip, gloves; solar topee, heavy boots; two valises; two suits with four shirts and two ties; tropical weight trousers, shirts and jacket; soft cap, underclothes and socks, kerchiefs, nightshirts, etc; razor, shaving mug/soap, toothpowder & brush, hairbrush; tropical kit, including mosquito netting and patent medicaments; map of India, map of Awadh; haversack and water bottle; .32 pepperbox pistol, 12-bore scattergun, .50 howdah pistol w/ holster, sheath knife
 
I need some help with the weapon stats.

[Lammomedes]

These are stats from the Mysteries of the Raj sourcebook.
I'll check my Gaslight Equipment Guide later on for anything I don't have stats for.

Howdah Pistol (.577), 15% base, 3d4 damage, 5 yds base range (they are basically oversize shotgun pistols), attacks 1 or 2, ammo 1 or 2, reload 1/2 rounds (2 rounds per barrel).
Rifled Musket (.577), 25% base, 4d4+1 damage, 60 yards range, attacks 1, ammo 1, reload 1/4 rounds
Service Revolver (.44), 20% base, 1d10+2 damage, 20 yards range, attacks 1, ammo 5, reload 1 round per chamber (6 rounds total)

I'll get you stats for the pepperbox and shotgun when I return home.

[Gaffer]

I've added a few details to Dodgson's gear, such as cheroots and tobacco, brandy, etc. Nothing of consequence. Still need Income/Cash.

[Lammomedes]

Gaffer,
Income will come with the appointment after your meeting with Sir Talbot.
As something rough and ready, let's say that every character here in India has EDUx10 in ready cash, line of credit, immediate savings, etc.
Given that 100-200 pounds is a decent ANNUAL income in the 1850s for someone of middle class status, that should consist of a substantial nest egg for just about everyone.

Some facts and figures from academic papers:
An average farm worker in Britain in 1850 was making about 18.5 PENCE/day. That's about 20 pounds sterling per year, give or take a few pounds. By 1900, this was about 1 pound/week, or about 50 pounds per annum.

A doctor might make between 1000 and 2000 pounds per year in 1850, and a brilliant barrister about about 5000 pounds, but these were the exceptions to the rules, just as today.

By the end of the 19th century, which is 50 years beyond our time, the following is true:

In the last decades of the nineteenth century William Booth estimated that a working family needed an income of at least 18s. to 21s. a week, or around £50 a year, just to get by, and 22s. to 30s. a week (£57 -£78 per annum) to be "comfortable".

There is very little change in wages between the late 18th century and the mid 19th century, with only gradual improvement in the 2nd half of the 19th century. The numbers below are probably accurate for London from the period 1750-1850, with wages at the end of the period being about 25% higher.

Wages for eighteenth-century women could range from the £2 or so mentioned above to between £6 and £8 for a housemaid, and up to £15 per annum for a skilled housekeeper. By contrast a footman could expect £8 per year, and a coachman anywhere between £12 and £26. Because they had to provide their own food, lodging and clothing, independent artisans needed to earn substantially more than this. £15 to £20 per year was a low wage, and a figure closer to £40 was needed to keep a family. The middling sort required much more still and could not expect to live comfortably for under £100 per year, while the boundary between the "middling sort" and the simply rich was in the region of £500. The First Lord of the Treasury enjoyed an annual salary of £4,000. Over the course of the nineteenth century, these wage patterns changed very slowly, as did London’s pattern of employments.

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Coinage.jsp#wages

[Lammomedes]

Takes this for what it is worth but it seems in line with the more academic sources:

A quarter of the entire population of Victorian Britain was living in poverty. 40% of the country’s wealth was owned by 5% of the population.

During the Victorian era, the middle-class was growing and those who were better off could increasingly have at least one servant. This developing group included everyone from industrialists and bankers earning over £1,000 a year, to shop-keepers and clerks who would earn less than £50 a year.

The upper-middle classes were largely made up of financiers and merchants (mostly in the capital), whilst the lower-middle class comprised of small manufacturers, shopkeepers, clerks, teachers and managerial officials.

Middle-class occupations accounted for roughly 7% of the population in the period 1850-70. In 1851 around 1-2% of the population had an income of over £150 a year. This figure of £150 was roughly the annual cost of living for a senior clerk in the middle of the 19th century, including £25 on rent, £5 on taxes, £50 on food, and £30 on clothing and the cleaning thereof.

Income and class were not directly related and it was possible to have a middle-class clerk earning less than a working-class cotton spinner. The clerk’s social elevation was in his manners, his dress and his background, not in his wealth.

Common labourers would earn about 3s 9d a week, and those with any particular skill, such as brick-layers, could hope to receive double that.

Source: http://www.census-helper.co.uk/victorian-life/

I also came across from an academic source that:
An army cornet/ensign could make 200 pounds a year in 1860, while an ICS officer was earning about 300 pounds a year in the same year.

Replace the above comment about military pay with the following:
In the 1850's an ensign's pay while in a line regiment was about £27, a Lieutenant's £41 and a Captain's £106. This pay was increased if the officer was in a Dragoon or Dragoon Guards regiment and increased again if he were in the Foot or Life Guards. It should be pointed out that this is salary before regimental deductions for food, accomodation and any subscriptions all of which were higher in the more prestigious units. Thanks to GHill for pulling up this material with a citation.

[Lammomedes]

Okay, work caught me off guard this week, as it was the end of the semester rush of students, grading, etc.
However, I am back on the ball. I'll try to get posts and responses done at least once a day to keep things moving along.

Thanks for your patience!

Matt

[Lammomedes]

This is a holding space for this post...ignore for now.

Mrs. Bandhura' shop is in a mud brick building, the sun having baked the bricks as hard as stone. A small white and blue striped awning is over the open door. Inside, voices speaking Hindi can be heard, as can the sound of three or four sewing machines. An inquiry for Mrs. Bandhura will bring forth an older Hindi lady dressed in traditional clothing, the tilak and bindi marks both quite prominent on her forehead. She also has a traditional nose piercing and nods, her English highly accented. "Sahib welcome here. How I help Sahib this day?"

[markh]

Would Thomas be in the Company's employ while in the OFF? I've been assuming it was some sort of long assignment from his army regiment, and that he's been returned to his regiment, but I'm not sure.

[Lammomedes]

Would Thomas be in the Company's employ while in the OFF? I've been assuming it was some sort of long assignment from his army regiment, and that he's been returned to his regiment, but I'm not sure.

From what I can gather, the OFF should actually be the Oudh Irregular Force, a unit of the Bengal Presidency Army. This means that they were actually in the service of the East India Company rather than regular British forces. They were filled with British officers and largely Hindu Brahmin and Kshatriya caste soldiers from the region.

"In the early days, uniform were not very military but the colour of the alkalak or kurta was regulated as was the colour of the turban and kummerbund to make members of each regiment recognisable, especially necessary in the heat of battle. The difference between regular and irregular cavalry was very obvious. There was much stricter discipline in the regular cavalry and the standard of intelligence generally lower. The irregular cavalry appealed to men of free spirit and attracted British officers of like mind."
http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/a ... re1857.htm

If you have time to read, this free book on Google books might help.
http://books.google.com/books?id=k2EOAA ... ce&f=false

[markh]

I came across them under the "Frontier Police" name in this book: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t6Py ... ce&f=false

After some googling, I think that the Frontier Police existed pre-annexation and was about 900 men, and the Irregular Force were post-annexation, with quite a few existing units merged in, so I guess the Frontier Police ended up as part of the Irregular Force?

Anyway, if uniform was a bit vague, it it reasonable to assume he wears uniform from his original regiment when formally required, seeing as that's what he will have had when he transferred? Or company uniform?

[markh]

I did some better organised digging, and found this:
"Some time in 1845, the Government of India made serious complaints of the disturbed state of the Oudh border, and the native Government raised, at an expense of about Rs. 1 5,000 per annum, the Oudh Frontier Police, to which officers were appointed by the British Resident, and the command was given to the Officer attached to the Thuggie and Dacoitee department. This Police Force has since been employed elsewhere besides on the border..." (http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/r ... -ala.shtml)

And then in this:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t6Py ... ce&f=false
First, talking about the pre-annexation situation "There was, however, a tolerably efficient police organisation, the Oudh Frontier Police, consisting of 900 men in all. It functioned under the control of the resident although it was paid for by the Oudh government."(p5)
Then some info on the post-annexation setup "A Field Force composed of regular army units was moved into Oudh at the time of annexation...it was also to hold the province till the Oudh Irregular Force could be raised..." (p43) "Three battalions of the Military Police and three troops of 100 sabres each were raised in Oudh. The old Frontier Police of Oudh was merged with it..." (p45)
Without quoting the whole lot, the book says the new Military Police was separate from the new Field Force/Irregular Force, the main distinction being that the MP reported to the Chief Commisioner. Not that it matters, but it's been interesting tracking this down. I would guess that Thomas was one of a small number of English officers seconded to the FP, and since annexation and merger with the MP, he's in some way fallen foul and is looking for a new post, provided it's back in Oudh.

Amusingly, I found a reference to a Captain Orr serving in the OFP who was later involved in the events of the mutiny. He sounded quite interesting so I tried to find out a little more about him, but I got very confused by references to him serving in difference forces under different ranks, etc. I finally found out there were 3 brothers Orr serving in different capacities in Oudh during the period!

[Lammomedes]

I came across them under the "Frontier Police" name in this book: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t6Py ... ce&f=false

After some googling, I think that the Frontier Police existed pre-annexation and was about 900 men, and the Irregular Force were post-annexation, with quite a few existing units merged in, so I guess the Frontier Police ended up as part of the Irregular Force?

Anyway, if uniform was a bit vague, it it reasonable to assume he wears uniform from his original regiment when formally required, seeing as that's what he will have had when he transferred? Or company uniform?

Hmmm thanks for the link to that source. I was trying to look through Google books US for any sort of link and that didn't come up. I was wondering if there was some sort of frontier police or if it was this irregular force.
Let's go with the assumption, not implausible, that the OFF is modeled after the Royal Irish Constabulary as were most colonial forces in the British Empire. I can provide a link or two if you like, but trust me on this one as I had to do some work earlier this semester on the history of policing in India. All rural and village police forces were brought under the central authority with the Police Act of 1861. Before that time, policing was largely local, and armed police forces were modeled after the RIC rather than the Metropolitan Police. So lets say that the 900 men, as is typical in India, are overseen by British or Anglo-Indian army officers, seconded to the unit (or retired) and that the men are almost all local Indian soldiers. Uniforms are catch as catch can, though until otherwise we discover something else, we could see they are khaki in color for all, but British officers wore their full dress reds (or blues depending on unit) when required for anything formal.

Does that work in this situation for the time being?

[Lammomedes]

I did some better organised digging, and found this:
"Some time in 1845, the Government of India made serious complaints of the disturbed state of the Oudh border, and the native Government raised, at an expense of about Rs. 1 5,000 per annum, the Oudh Frontier Police, to which officers were appointed by the British Resident, and the command was given to the Officer attached to the Thuggie and Dacoitee department. This Police Force has since been employed elsewhere besides on the border..." (http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/r ... -ala.shtml)

And then in this:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t6Py ... ce&f=false
First, talking about the pre-annexation situation "There was, however, a tolerably efficient police organisation, the Oudh Frontier Police, consisting of 900 men in all. It functioned under the control of the resident although it was paid for by the Oudh government."(p5)
Then some info on the post-annexation setup "A Field Force composed of regular army units was moved into Oudh at the time of annexation...it was also to hold the province till the Oudh Irregular Force could be raised..." (p43) "Three battalions of the Military Police and three troops of 100 sabres each were raised in Oudh. The old Frontier Police of Oudh was merged with it..." (p45)
Without quoting the whole lot, the book says the new Military Police was separate from the new Field Force/Irregular Force, the main distinction being that the MP reported to the Chief Commisioner. Not that it matters, but it's been interesting tracking this down. I would guess that Thomas was one of a small number of English officers seconded to the FP, and since annexation and merger with the MP, he's in some way fallen foul and is looking for a new post, provided it's back in Oudh.

Amusingly, I found a reference to a Captain Orr serving in the OFP who was later involved in the events of the mutiny. He sounded quite interesting so I tried to find out a little more about him, but I got very confused by references to him serving in difference forces under different ranks, etc. I finally found out there were 3 brothers Orr serving in different capacities in Oudh during the period!

Thanks for all the hard work. I'll keep digging myself to see what I can come up with.

[Lammomedes]

General update:
Since this weekend is the Xmas holidays, I am going to stop responding on Saturday, 12/24, at noon EST (1700 GMT) and then pick up again on Tuesday, 12/27 after noon EST.
I'll probably do the same thing for New Year's weekend.

One question: would it be easier to follow if I broke the current grouping into different threads? I am not sure how long people are going to stay with each other so I don't want to force interaction.
But if it is too confusing to follow at the moment, it's easy enough to move the threads to a new one, even temporarily.

Regardless, happy holidays everyone!

Matt (aka Lammomedes and Dexter Ford)

[markh]

Some holiday breaks seem reasonable. I'm fine following the action in one thread at the moment, and I assume we'll all be in the same place by the ball scene, anyway.

[Mr. Handy]

I can follow it just fine with everything in one thread, but I wouldn't have a problem if you want to split it into multiple threads. I do that all the time in my games.

[Gaffer]

I'm fine with a single thread at this point.

[Lammomedes]

I can follow it just fine with everything in one thread, but I wouldn't have a problem if you want to split it into multiple threads. I do that all the time in my games.

It will happen in time, I am sure. But for the moment, I'll keep it in one thread.

[ghill]

No problem my end. I haven't been looking to hook up with anyone else as I figured that was what the ball was for.

Happy Christmas/Seasons greetings to one and all