The Parlour

[andyw666]

Nope, I'm not, but I still have no sympathy for Victoria. Still, at least you're not from Tassie. Or Kiwi-land.

[HelplessBystander]

Oooh, that's true.

[andyw666]

I retract my grumbling about my 95%

[HoneyDog]

Are you aiming at Faez, Andy?

[andyw666]

Oh hell yes! Sorry if that wasn't clear from my post.

[andyw666]

Umm, Honeydog, while I hate being a rules lawyer, I have some concerns with what just happened:

1. A .38 pistol only fires twice a turn if readied in any event, not three times. (Only a .32 or smaller gets off three shots, and .32s are means to be pretty rare in the Victorian era, BTW.)

2. This guy actually had to draw this weapon to fire it. To quote the rules, "In this second DEX cycle now also include (a) those making hand-Io·hand attacks, (b) those firing who needed either to draw their pistols or to shoulder their rifles or shotguns, and (c) those firing for a second time in the round." The rules then go on to talk about firing a third shot at half DEX of your weapon fires three shots a turn.

I have always played it that someone drawing a pistol only gets off one shot that turn due to the difficulties of drawing and firing. But even if you were being generous, the rules read to me that only a three shots a turn weapon gets off that last one at half DEX.

Ie. You have a holstered .38. You can draw it and get off one shot at hand to hand DEX.

You have a holstered .32. You can draw it and get off one shot at hand to hand DEX. A generous GM might then allow a second shoot at half DEX but I wouldn't.

[HoneyDog]

The cultists attacked first - Faez and the other man. Faez failed and then Harry attacked him. My way of thinking is that the third man drew his gun as Faez was attacking. Does that sound okay?

I concede your point on the last shot though. I can go back and edit, no problem. I really loathe combat rounds.

[andyw666]

Standing up, Harry draws his trusty service revolver, pointing it carefully at the ceiling, and collects his cane with his left hand. He plans to guard the coffin and is watching Faez and his workmen very carefully, particularly ready in case anyone pulls a weapon.

First up, it's still a 38, it doesn't get a third shot.

Seconds, Harry was ready to act as soon as these guys did anything. That was the point of my earlier post. I would have said round one was Faez grabs cane (and reaches for weapon although that's GM poetic licence), Harry shoots him, thug draws pistol and fires one shot.

I think the point of the system is that a person with a drawn pistol can get off a shot very quickly compared to someone drawing one.

[HoneyDog]

Yes I conceded your point on the third shot already.

I don’t concede your other point. The man drew in the first attack round. I forgot to add the point blank bonus so Harry should probably be dead.

[andyw666]

OK, just rewind to the beginning of the events...

Harry is watching Faez and his crew like a hawk and is frankly expecting betrayal. He has his gun out and is ready to act.

Round 1, My understanding is Faez grabs Harry's cane and the thug draws a pistol. Faez shouldn't really get two actions so shouldn't be drawing as well.

If that is what Harry saw, he wouldn't have shot at Faez, he would have shot at the thug who was the greater threat - and as Harry was ready with pistol drawn, Harry would have acted first.

If that isn't what Harry saw, then the thug has not yet drawn his pistol and doesn't get a shot at all.

Round 2 - either thug is down and Faez is drawing a pistol or Faez is down and thug is drawing a pistol. Someone will get off a shot unless Harry shoots then first.

(I appreciate that you may not love the combat rules but the idea is it's a system we can all understand and plan by to try to minimise our Pc's risks. I'm not trying to be a game wrecker here but have made assumptions and decisions based on how I expect the rules to work.)

[HoneyDog]

It seems reasonable to me that a person could use one hand to grab a cane and the other to start pulling a gun. But if the rules don’t allow it fine. But you’re assuming Harry can see the other man. His attention would be on Faez, no? This is why I moved Faez in front of Harry, in order to block his view.

[andyw666]

*SIGH* I'm feeling like this isn't getting very far.

First, as stated, Harry is actively trying to watch these people. All of them. I didn't read anything that suggested he couldn't see all of them. Maybe a description that said after Faez moved, Harry couldn't see a thug would have been warranted? Or at least an Idea roll to realise the issue or maybe a Spot Hidden roll to see what the thug was doing? But if you're trying to watch three people you don't trust and suddenly you can't see one of those people, if you could then you would move so you can see them all again. And if Harry can't see the thug, how can the thug see Harry to shoot him anyway?

It is still my view that the thug who has to draw a pistol - while being watched - should not be able to get off a whole lot of shots before the guy with a drawn pistol can shoot.

Second, it is a game with rules simulating reality and what I'm more concerned about is playing within the rules. Having said that, in the RW doing something physically complex like trying to grab a cane AND trying to draw a firearm stuffed down your pants is not possible. It is like rubbing your stomach and patting your head but under extreme pressure with adrenalin pumping and heartbeat racing. Trust me, it is not possible for mere mortals and you're more likely to drop the gun.

I'm concerned we've reached an impasse here though which is frustrating and disappointing at this point of the adventure. I have enjoyed it until now and hope I've contributed to the enjoyment. This might be a good time for me to have a break from gaming.

[HoneyDog]

I appreciate it’s hard to get a clear idea of what is happening, but if I write too much I run the danger of telegraphing my intentions. I do want to make it more exciting if I can.

The thug could see Harry because Faez had been shot and collapsed.

I don’t think it’s possible to know how everyone might react in a certain situation regarding adrenaline etc.

I’m trying to be conciliatory though Andy. The game is nearly finished anyway, and I’d like to finish despite my flagging enthusiasm.. I’ve conceded my error on the third shot and I accept that perhaps a character cannot do two things at once. But you need to accept it if you get out maneuvered and things don’t go your way.

If Mr. Handy doesn’t mind I’ll ask him to adjudicate, and if he says the npc actions are unreasonable I’ll edit the posts. Is that acceptable?

[HoneyDog]

On second thoughts, let’s just retire this game. I haven't really been enjoying it as I seem to just be pissing people off, so before we all fall out forever let’s chuck it in the bin. I'm sorry that some players have been frustrated by decisions I've made, but they've been made in regards to how I've perceived this scenario to work in the most logical and coherent manner.

Game is cancelled. I’m sorry but I don’t want to do it anymore. I really have no enthusiasm for this one, it's not really working.

Start afresh on another forum maybe.

[Rooter]

Sigh. Four months and it was almost done. Well, thanks for sticking with it this far, HD. It seems there was a curse upon this game.

[Mr. Handy]

I'm sorry I didn't reply earlier. I was away in London and had less free time than I'd thought, and there was a lot going on here without enough time for me to catch up on it. I would like to continue playing, especially since we're so close to the end. I'm not sure what's going on in the other room, as I haven't been reading the spoiler buttons that don't have my character's name, but going by Andy's account in this thread I think he is correct about the rules. You can draw and fire a gun in the same round, but the gun goes off in the second half of the round, after everyone with a drawn gun has already had at least one shot. I can't see how you can draw a gun and also try to grab someone else's weapons in the same round. The latter action would also be a Grapple, which requires both hands to be free. This is not the case if you're drawing a weapon with one of your hands. A Grapple like that is the only way to "parry" a firearm attack, but failing the roll means the shot goes off (at point blank range). It also seems from the description here that he was trying to grab a cane, not a readied gun. Even if the Grapple is successful, that just means they're both now contesting control of the weapon. It takes a second successful Grapple on a later round to take the weapon away, and then actually attacking with it would not be possible until the round after that.

[HoneyDog]

I appreciate the explanation Mr. Handy, but you might as well remove this one. Sorry.